Handout found in my mailbox on Sunday, the 8th of December
Posted By: Dave Serena
This post is to the individual or individuals who placed the anonymous handout in my mailbox that conveyed some of the most ill-informed, uneducated – and most importantly – prevaricate – nonsense on the intent of the HOA dues and CC&R changes. My unassailable opinion (and rest assured, Ms. or Mr. Anonymous, those of many others) is that you are in need of some definite help. It’s unfortunate (and even perhaps deplorable) that as the surrounding communities and Summit Park grow, you are unwilling to bend with the times and realize that this is no longer the wild west where anything goes. The times we live in dictate that some changes must be made – yes – to help protect our community from the dangers of wildfire and, to some degree, how our community is developed in the future. Perhaps you should consider moving to a remote cabin in the middle of nowhere where you can converse with the wildlife and run naked through the aspens. If then, you are so ignorant that you care not to build a fire break to help keep your cabin out of harms way when a wildfire roars through, than it is nobody’s fault but your own when you are standing among the ashes of a place you once called home. Let me also remind you that the HOA is not run by a bunch of dictators that can impose anything, on anybody, at any time. The HOA is run in a democratic fashion by a group of volunteers that care deeply about where they live. These same individuals take their own time and efforts to represent our community as a whole, they are placed in positions for set term limits, and the beauty of it all is that you, as a voting and community member, have the ability to voice your opinon by attending and speaking out at meetings. Hiding behind your anonymously written, error prone, and delusional prose is not the way to go. Next time, why don’t you try actually attending an HOA meeting, voicing your opinions among other attendees, and see how the democratic process actually works – where it be in your favor or not? And if not, the majority prevails, which is the way it is designed and structured. Oh, and one final note, your disturbed view that the HOA is out to perhaps keep people from installing solar panels on their home which is somewhat clever of you to reference something as trendy and green as solar panels, than, it’s not hard to take another example and express that the HOA may also raise an eyebrow. What if someone decides to build a toxic laden, odoriferous, visually offensive, mosquito and fly infested dump in our neighborhood? Works both ways, doesn’t it? The good news is that the dump will be destroyed, along with your house, when the wildfire roars through our neighborhood because nobody was willing to be proactive in helping to reduce the danger.
9 Comments
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Wow, this looks to be a storm brewing. Way to bring the community together. I didn’t hand out flyers but I did receive one that appears to be different than the one you’re referring to. I came to the site to see this for myself. I will be staying anonymous for now for two reasons. 1. After looking at Kay Kunkle’s immature personal attack in the “summit park is a subdivision” to call out someone opposed to the CC&R change is downright malicious and dirty and reflects how the HOA will operate…and 2. Your response is another reflection of the HOA attitude in action. So let’s address your points. Wildfire – hard to argue with scare tactics and safety but nevertheless a good cause for the community. So how much $ is it going to take from us? $50 / year, yeah right. That’ll be a starting point and the spending spree will begin. HOA needs to have a good plan together to convince me that they know how to manage money and attack the fire break maintenance in an affordable manner. There is no plan other than “we want to be Firewise” and have fire breaks. That’s not going to be cheap. The current budget spending is 75% administrative costs. You think that’ll get better with more money? Let’s not forget the forests behind us are local, state and federal, so there are funding programs available from our existing taxes and the HOA, with their mandates, is not the only way to get them. You mention the “HOA is run in a democratic fashion by a group of volunteers….is not run by dictators that can impose anything, on anybody, at any time.” You can say what you want, but it’s what’s written, or not, that counts. The proposed CC&Rs has nothing restricting future “salaries” for the board members. I guarantee that if the HOA gets all of summit park lots on the CC&R it would become a “job” to members and eventually they’ll vote themselves salaries. In fact that’s probably Kay’s plan for retirement since she keeps pushing for this. As far as imposing anything, anybody at any time….read article 2.05 Special Assessment – “From time to time the Association may impose special assessments upon each Lot for the purpose of defraying…any expenses necessary or desirable to enable the Association to perform or fulfill its obligations, functions or purposes.” Pretty open ended. Have you read the proposal? You, my friend, are uniformed or don’t know how to read a contract. It’s the most appalling, power play maneuver against individual property rights I’ve ever seen. Mandated fees, liens, foreclosure abilities and unlimited professional resources to go after you. Why unlimited? Because YOU have to pay the collection costs after they go after you. Win or lose. I’m not going to waste space on solar panels, if you can get enough light in Summit Park then more power to you, pun intended. Lastly, the infested dump comment. Our current CC&Rs and city/county ordinances already protects us from that. That’s why Summit Park isn’t a dump and has been a great place to live after 50+ years without an HOA.
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Dear Different Anonymous,
I wanted to thank you for the additional confusing and misleading information regarding the “Proposed CC&R DRAFT.” With out concerned home owners like yourself, people may not pay attention and perhaps be accidently excluded from the process. I would like to comment, for now, on a couple of your views. First and foremost, is your personal attack on one of our long time and most community involved members, Mrs Kunkle. Whether you agree or not, the information she posted is fact, not a malicious attempt to bring in a bunch of iron fisted goons to clean out your bank account and take your home. She merely stated what is proposed and, news flash my friend, was drafted from CC&R’s which were already in existence when you moved in to SP. The HOA has been trying to solicit recommendations and suggestions from the community for the revision of a “REQUIRED” document. Instead they are getting bombarded by impetuous members of our community playing this incognito personal vendetta game of diversion. Now, Lets talk Wildland Fire! It’s obvious by your criticism you have no idea how the process of this fuel break maintenance thing works. I think the web site, (awesome by the way), the annual meeting, and the blog postings explains it in detail. Again, for those of you that don’t hand in you homework, THERE IS NO $$$$ if we, the SP residents, do not take a proactive approach and develop a fund balance to plan and contract out the work required. You say there are other funding avenues we can take, but you have no suggestions or ideas on where to find them. $ comes from the top. Feds>State>County>and then little old SP. The shekels we are being asked to contribute is not a “scare tactic” It’s a sincere call to invest in our neighborhood. Fundamentally, it’s a partnership between the people who hold the purse strings, governmental agencies, and the communities who do hand in their homework. it’s up to us to show that we are worth their time and investment. Right now the local focus is on the “high value” communities, Promontory, Colony and Red Hawk, just to mention a few. If we are to get the job done, the right way, so we can sleep at night when the rest of the world is on fire, our community has to rally. Not fight! Your viewpoint lacks conviction, so don’t be anonymous, Show your face and go work things out. I’m confident the people behind this don’t bite.
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Thank you, Woodchopper, for stating such a lucid reply. All very well stated. Just to add to the comments from Different Anonymous, I checked the budget numbers that were given out during the annual meeting at No Worries and administrative costs cover just under 45% of the total, so I’m not sure where the 75% number is derived. What does it cover? From the way I read it, it covers such things as a P.O. Box for incoming mail, general liability insurance for the SPHA, notifications mailings, some food to help attract people to the HOA meetings (pizza – whoo-hoo!), and attorney fees to cover tax submissions. I fail to see how such items are out-of-line or onerous. A perusal of the CC&R’s also indicate that they have been around since 1957, and after 55-some years, it would seem to me that asking them to be updated and reflective of our whole community as it exists today is something that is for the betterment of the community. What I simply don’t understand is why all the rhetoric and mis-information against what appears to me to be a fairly straight-forward agenda by some volunteer board members that, from what I have witnessed from attending a few of the meetings, definitely have the best interests of the community in mind (and thank you for taking the time and efforts, as it’s all very much appreciated by most). Nobody is out to take your home or create an environment that is burdensome, or give themselves big “retirement” salaries (say what?). Paranoia will not get you far except to make yourself look foolish under the guise of fact checking. From someone who obviously takes their freedoms quite seriously, do you really want to see a set of CC&Rs that cover every contingency possible, or simply something that better aligns the interests of the community as a whole without all the legalize and expense associated with such a document? I suggest you work with the system by providing some meaningful input through the means available to ALL of Summit Park residents, and see where the process takes us. I think I’m done on the commentary for a while, but I do look forward to hopefully hearing from you at the proper forum (ie, an HOA community meeting). As for you, Mr.(or perhaps Ms.) Woodchopper – I love what you write – great stuff!
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Dear Different Anonymous,
I believe it would be very beneficial if you would be present at an HOA Board Meeting to express your concerns. You obviously have the energy and passion we are looking for to help with this process. These CC&R’s are not going to go away and we need to collaborate and come up with a palatable solution for everyone. Our intention is to bring this forward in a constructive sensible manner with input from as many neighbors as possible. Your comments are taken very seriously by the Board and we are looking very closely at the wording and intent of the CC&R revision. The present documents are out of date and do not reflect the current thinking of our community or acceptable future developmental guidelines.
We are working diligently and are attentive to the concerns of others. You have made valid points and, as homeowners ourselves, we would not want to mandate any unreasonable self imposed restrictive covenants. I look forward to meeting with you so we can discuss and clarify any misunderstandings.
Sincerely,
Chris Quinones
SPHA President
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I am very concerned about all of this after reading these type of comments. When and where will these “draft items” be put to a vote? Where are these (3.1) Articles that people were referring to? I only see up to (2.30) and recommended changes A to G
I find it a little odd the Architectural committee is trying limit my rights and freedom. I paid for the right to choose my house trim color.
As SPHA doc states: “Navy blue, black, red or any other bright colors are prohibited on either siding or trim. All siding materials and colors must be approved by the Architectural Committee prior to application. In the event the owner or contractor fails to submit color samples prior to application, said owner or contractor shall be solely responsible for any noncompliance, and costs of removal.”
I read the current CC’R. As they are now there is no need for the additional rules. Please re-think if these changes. Are they really necessary? Are they worth this much community upset?
Surely we, Summit Park as a whole, are a very giving community!! Full of energetic people who love a good cause. Preventing fires is so importune to us all and I just know we could raise money for it. (T-shirt campaign or sticker sales) We helped save Toll canyon surely this can be done for the Summit fire program.
If given the opportunity to attend a small charity event or silent auction to benefit Summit Park Fire Programs I would and I would donate!! We as a community could raise money for the fire program. We should be thinking outside the box on this one. Fund raise, potluck charity socials, local business out reach for a silent auction items or heck even a knit-a-thon…anything for a good cause. You will attract more bees with honey…just saying.
SPHA please respond on the vote time and location when you can. Thank you for your time.
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Wow, that’s good stuff. I came to the website to see what all the CC&R “proposal” stuff was and look what I find, a group of HOA board members / spouses that will insult and attack at first opposition. I’ll be staying anonymous for now. So Kay’s direct insult to point out an individual opposed to the “proposal” is ok with you guys? Completely unacceptable and it doesn’t matter who or what anyone has done. And you Mr. Sliver Picker, your sexist comments to a woman in a blog “news flash babe” and other ridiculous comments doesn’t make you any kind of authority of CC&Rs? This wasn’t drafted from our existing CC&Rs, it was drafted from a lawyer. Our existing CC&Rs doesn’t have any language that requires fees or give lien and foreclosure abilities to a HOA. Nice try though. I know what they are though, a change to our property deeds. Did you know that? Are you able to explain section by section what the legal impact is to homeowners? Try it, you’ll find yourself lacking “conviction” as you put it. David, all I can say is what a childish rant. It’s what turned me on to pursue you guys. I couldn’t believe what I was reading. Try arguing with facts next time. Chris, thanks for the taking the higher road, but your comment in “Uniform CC&Rs, on the table again” about us being “privileged” people in Summit Park is insulting. I doubt there are many folks that got handed their lifestyle at Summit Park. Blog after blog I see a group ganging up on the questioning and opposing. I don’t stand for that and I always intervene if I see it. Lucky you. You thank me for bringing light to it, but I have feeling you’ll regret that unless you start telling the whole truth about this document. I wish the original Mr./Mrs. Anonymous would chime in but they probably have no interest in website. So one last chance guys or I’m an ally of the Mr./Mrs. Anonymous. This time try hitting the points.
Firewise – There is no detailed plan of how the Summit Park HOA is going to spend our money on the website that I can find, just a links to the national program. What was discussed, yes I was there, at the annual meeting was how we were going to clean up Kay’s yard as an example and then try to encourage others to work on their properties. Then we get recognized, and then we get eligible for federal funds. No guarantees. Doesn’t justify the mandate but as some of you above clearly didn’t get, I do believe a good cause nevertheless. CC&R pass or not, you come up with a good detailed plan and I’ll give you $50/year for the firewise program. I bet others would agree.
So other than the separate firewise fee, there’s the mandated HOA fees. Dumpsters, toilets, landscaping and administrative costs. Come on man. How about limitations to fee increases. Sorry Dave, screwed up the math somewhere between the budget going up 25% and landscaping, but 45% admin costs is not anything to be proud of. I’ll pay $50 to use the dumpster if I need it….but why all the restrictions guys? And please, get away from this being just a “proposal”, it’s reality for Plat A/B, so are you really willing to change things?
How about getting rid of the personal obligation and lien section? Having trouble getting dues without threatening foreclosure and legal action at the homeowner’s expense? If you have a good program this shouldn’t be a concern. Why would anyone allow a group to be able to go after you “personally?” That’s lawyer language for any and all of your assets. That’s just crazy. You can say what you want, but it’s in writing.
And why would the HOA or individual board members be exempt from liability? If you operate within rules and voting parameters of the association then what’s the problem? You also limit people by forcing mediation. If I wanted to sue you and have a case, then I want to retain those rights. Who are you to mandate away those rights?
The architectural section is just a policing agency. Article III covers land use and building specifications, along with county and city ordinances and our existing CC&Rs. How is the architectural committee anything but an enforcing system of article III? Speaking of which, above was mentioned “terms” for board members. It was announced at the annual meeting the architectural committee chairman is going beyond their term because of lack of replacement. Isn’t that against the rules and your arguments on terms?
Special assessments – Way too vague and way too open for abuse. And Dave, it’s not the “intent” but it is in writing so you can stop with the BS about what you wish it says. I’m not going all conspiracy theory here, it’s just black and white. A lawyer is obviously wrote this for the HOA in mind and not the individuals. Everybody should know what this stuff means to them. In fact, setup a neighborhood meeting and get your lawyer there to answer questions. That should be fun.
Salaries – Want to convince me it’s not going to happen, then put it in writing and ensure it takes >50% of the HOA members, not board, to vote to change it. Shouldn’t be a problem for a group that sells themselves to be voluntary?
So start with these basic elements and we’ll go from there. Remember, no BS because if it is in black and white, or the ability exists then it’s a fact that people should be concerned about their reduction in property rights. And please, cut out the BS about “mis-information” and back up your comments with quotes directly out of the CC&R like the flyer I got.
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Geez, I thought I was done posting on this blog for a while (limited time, you know), but I guess I have to take a few more minutes to respond to your foray. Putting aside that you seem to take great pleasure in “discovering” something about me, I give you credit and a slap on the back for taking a passion in what goes on around you. Good for you! Even though I may not agree with all that you may express (well, actually, very little, but that’s okay), at least you are far from apathetic and are obviously concerned enough that you – like me – are willing to take the time to express your views. While I don’t have the time or inclination to write much here, since you seem to have taken an interest in who I am, I’ll be glad to share a bit more about me. In no particular order, you or others may be interested in knowing that I drive a 12-year old car with 220,000 miles on it. Do the commute each weekday into the SL Valley to pay the bills, you know. The old car doesn’t look pretty, but it gets me around in fine style, even though it’s full of mud and dog hair right now. One of the pluses of driving such a vehicle is I never have to worry about that inconsiderate person who dings my door because they seem to care more about needing as much room to open their own car door than to worry about the damage it may cause to the car parked next to their own. And who knows, perhaps they need every bit of that extra 3 inches to get in or out of their car. I also tend to wear my socks for way too long — probably because I don’t much care for doing laundry and folding clothes. Regarding living in Summit Park, heck, we probably share a lot in that regard. I love the trees and the eclectic living style. I love the the trails near our backyards, the cool summers, but don’t much care for the narrow roads that display their ugly side in winter. Hate trying to keep my driveway clean of snow this time of year too. In the summer, I look forward to Dumpster Days each year to clean out a bit more around the house, and think to myself that the $50 voluntary dues to our community fund is more than worth the time and effort ALONE if I was to otherwise make multiple trips out to the county dump where I still have to lay down a few Hamilton’s to get rid of the stuff. On the other hand, I don’t much care for the people who on Dumpster Day weekend, arrive after hours (to save their $50 due payment?) to not only dump their stuff outside the bin, but put stuff there that can’t be taken away (like tires). So what that means is that people like me have to take their own precious time to drag THEIR garbage to the bin and haul THEIR tires to Burt Brothers and pay (out of our own pockets) the disposal fee to properly get rid of them. Bad karma on their part, but a pain nevertheless for me. On the bright side, I very much appreciate the fact that some in this community really care about it and get involved. I know, because I’m married to one, and I know how much time is volunteered to make our community just a little bit better, and often at the personal expense of people like me and our kids. And on a more topical issue, who around here didn’t think about the place where we choose to live and how vulnerable our chosen lifestyle is when fires burned elsewhere in our county lsat summer? Man, I like our picturesque views around here, and would hate to see it literally go up in smoke. And the last thing you should know about me is that I’m a scientist, which means I tend to look at things from many different angles, viewing the facts as they stand, and basing judgments on what I know and understand. I hope that means too, by corollary, that I’m expressing my opinion the way I see it and based on the information that is out there for all to see too. Yes, it may not be the same as your opinion, my neighbor’s opinion, my neighbor’s neighbor’s opinion, or the opinion of my wife’s too. So in closing, I just hope that you remain open minded on all this stuff going around. If it makes you feel better, I see a lot of this as a bunch of little tweaks in the system to bring things up to date around here. Nobody is going to take you house if you can’t pay your dues, nobody is going to keep you from putting up solar panels on your roof, and nobody is ever – EVER – going to get remotely rich from any of this. The system is actually designed so that important issues are voted on by the community, so nobody is trying or wanting to slip a fast one here. Okay? And come on, 50 bucks is nothing for what we get in return from our community org! Try volunteering yourself and see just how much time is taken up and given back. And then come back and tell me what you think, okay? And if you don’t believe that, well, there’s probably nothing that I or anybody else can do to convince you otherwise. Oh, sorry, and one final thought for you… 45% of a dollar is 45 cents. I don’t feel like taking the time to look up the total budget, but it’s not much, so it’s best that you keep the “45%” in perspective and realize just how little it really represents when the whole dollar amount is actually considered (not to mention where those Admin costs actually goes towards). Cheers, mate.
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You are so right. Thank you for bringing out those items. I don’t want anyone to take my home either if I don’t pay a mandatory HOA fee. I think this CC&R thing needs to be tabled for now and reevaluated. I want to apologize to anyone who I may have unintentionally insulted by my “babe” comment. I was just responding in kind to comments which I believed to be exaggerated and inflammatory. Come on, does anyone really think the HOA board is endorsing mandates which are ruthless and overly imposing? If there is something you can’t live with, give not criticism but ideas. These people live here to and will be subject to same documents.
Woodchopper…..Sliver Picker…..Thats funny 🙂
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Never hold resentments for the person who tells you what you need to hear; count them among your truest, most caring, and valuable friends. Have a safe and loving holiday.